>Richard Desmond & Mike Parker wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Just thought I would help to muddy the waters a little....
>
>I was wondering how long it would take you to jump in on this one.
>
>>
>> I presume that those in favour of taking lessons are refering to a
>> classical technique (of whichever school) and would be advocating the
>> raised thumb and a passing thechnique.
>
>(Careful, Mike, you're trying to Salzedo bait again, and it won't work)
>
>No, not necessarily. We've had this subject hashed over before.
>Lessons can teach you a lot more than JUST the hand position. Remember,
>you've also got body position -- and not based on "classical" technique,
>but ergonomic necessesity for each individual person. Lessons are also
>valuable to establish a technique for the student - whether it's the
>thumb under, over or whatever. The student doesn't have to re-invent
>the wheel for every piece, or keep trying over and over to work on
>something that won't fit their hand without modification.
I didn't mention the S word! In this particular situation, I would be just
as strong about Bochsa and Grandjanay
>
>It would seem that this is the
>> prescribed technique for *the* harp, irrespective of whether it is suitable
>> for the instrument or not.
>
>The value of lessons for BEGINNERS is the subject, not which technique
>they are to learn.
>
>> There is no such thing as a single technique. It would be quite pointless
>> to go to a teacher and learn a technique designed for a large, high tension
>> instrument and then try to implement it on a low tension, small harp...yet
>> this goes on all the time.
>
>
>Now this is a statement I absolutly agree with, and I've seen and heard
>horror stories. A teacher has to at least understand the differences in
>the instruments -- and anyone who thinks that using a full blown concert
>harp technique on a delicately strung instrument hasn't listened to the
>awful sound this produces. (or is really stubborn)
>
>>
>> I have taken 3 lessons on the harp...all on points of musical stylistics
>> rather than on technique and all long after I had tought muself to play
>> harps. Since then I have spent the bulk of my life working out different
>> techniques to make different types of harp work. I have been a professional
>> harpist for the last 17 years and can certainly do more than pluck my way
>> through a few tunes.
>>
>> I am perfectly capable of playing a large double action with the technique
>> presented in the Bochsa tutor books but can also play with the vertical
>> hand position recomended by Elouis or with the 5 finger technique of
>> Desargus and Mme de Genlis.
>>
>> I would suggest that if I had been through the brainwashing of a classical
>> training, I would have had a great deal more of a struggle in adapting my
>> hands to the minute string spacings of a gothic harp ot the intracacies of
>> chromatic stringing.
>
>Classical training doesn't NECESSARILY mean you've been brainwashed, but
>in many cases it sure seems that way -- don't tar us all with the same
>brush.
>
>>
>> Provided a student has a reference and is prepared to be totally honest
>> with themselves, there is no reason why anyone should not teach
>> themselves...it is far more important to be comfortable with ones own
>> playing than to slavishly follow some ortadox technique.
>
>I agree that you must be comfortable with your own playing, but there is
>no need to slavishly follow any technique. Again, lessons for beginners
>are more than beating the technique of any "school" into their heads and
>hands. There are some people you CAN'T teach a standard technique to
>due to hand problems or other muscular problems. You can still teach
>them to play very well without subscribing slavishly to any one
>technique and in fact you may have to incorporate techniques from other
>harps or schools to benefit the individual student.
>
>You can learn to do nearly anything on your own, but it will almost
>always take longer. Even a few lessons can help. Think how long it
>takes most people to learn how to tie the end of a harp string to
>replace it from the picture in Sylvia's book versus being shown how to
>do it. They'll eventually get it, but not as quickly as being instantly
>shown.
>
>Happy New Year guys, may you have lots of wonderful things in 1997.
>
>Robin
Anyhow.
My prime motivation for the response was, I guess, defensive. I know plenty
of bad, incapable harpists who had lessons, some with quite eminent
teachers.
Posts to the effect that nobody self taught can be any good really riled
me, being self taught and capable enough to have players who did go to
teachers (and even some teachers) come to me over aspects of my playing.
I know plenty of players who worked it out for themselves Andrew Lawrence
King and Mary MacMaster included). Some of us have probably gotten further
under our own steam than we would have with a well meaning but
unintentionally stifling influence telling us to keep our elbows up.
Be happy,
Mike (who doesn't keep his elbows up!)